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sol


What did Karl mean by this?

1 2024-10-21 23:07

Freedom consists in converting the state from an organ superimposed upon society into one completely subordinate to it; and today, too, the forms of state are more free or less free to the extent that they restrict the "freedom of the

state"

2 2024-10-22 00:25

ive read a bit but i'm no marx scholar
i think what he's getting at is that making the state free isn't a useful socialist goal, i think the next paragraph makes it pretty clear, "The German Workers' party — at least if it adopts the program — shows that its socialist ideas are not even skin-deep; ... it treats the state rather as an independent entity that possesses its own intellectual, ethical, and libertarian bases." where hes talking about, freedom consists of converting the state to a subordinate entity what i think hes saying is that instead of "freeing the state" you ought to free the people by making the state subordinate to society and abolishing class distinctions.

3 2024-10-24 22:27

In his conspectus of Bakunin’s Statism and Anarchy, I think he makes his view pretty clear.
Bakunin: "The Germans number around forty million. Will for example all forty million be member of the government?"
Marx: "Certainly! Since the whole thing begins with the self-government of the commune."

4 2024-10-25 11:00

Karl Marx believed that he inherently knew the true nature of "The True Human". He believed that True Humans were inherently collective in nature meaning that individual human people didn't live and work for themselves but individual humans lived and worked for the benefit of all humans as a collective. He believed that only a True Human would understand this nature of humanity and such an individual with this special knowledge would be able to awaken this knowledge to other True Humans through his outlook of how humanity works - the material dialectic. He called these True Humans as "the Communist Man". The status of Communist Man is Marx's vision of the ultimate humanity in which humanity cannot progress further and no more history needs to be recorded; the ultimate point of humanity will never change after this because the ultimate True Human will always produce the exact same ultimate result of the ultimate True Human.

How the state (human official government) works in his material dialectic is that it works to govern individuals to produce more Communist individuals, each Communist individual are all working towards the ultimate goal of the True Human/Communist Human. Marx's vision is that there will be a future point in history in which the state understands itself to be superfluous in governing (producing) individual humans that produce more Communist individuals. This is Marx's freedom in which all individuals that make up all of humanity have no more personal desire to hoard private property. This is the meaning of Marx's freedom as he equates freedom with Communism - the status of the True Human who has no need to hoard any private property.

These are a few suppositions of Marx and these suppositions have no basis in any kind of historical or biological evidence; these suppositions are a kind of gnostic special knowledge that are supposed to exist in reality outside of reason and observation. That is, Communism is a crackpot religion that's just as kooky as any of the other gnostic belief systems that perpetually plague human society.

5 2024-10-25 22:11

I see this kind of statement all the time “marx siad x y z” but there is never a reference to book/essay + page number. Do you animals really think you can just make wild claims with no citation? Stupid

6 2024-10-26 01:55

marx was a stupid shill

7 2024-10-26 14:17

>>5
It's one thing to recite the words that came from the Marx's publications. It's another thing to interpret the meaning that puts the citation within its proper context. A simple reading of Marx divorced from his context means that you lose a lot of meaning when interpreting his publications. I personally missed so much of what Marx meant during my initial readings of his works because I wasn't able to find its proper context. It was only after a serious dive into the history of Marx that I read other publications (that were not written by Marx) that put the words of Marx within the proper context. So it is possible that I would cite the specific chapters of Marx's works, I won't be doing this at the moment. The reason is that Marx has a worldview that isn't a western Christian worldview, I'm not going to cite the background context that properly matches the words of Marx. Instead, I merely wrote my very high level interpretation of what Marx meant without direct citations.

8 2024-10-26 15:25

>>5
It's from Critique of the Gotha Programme: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
Here's the programme itself: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gotha_Program

But if you mean >>4 then yes, that's completely made up and has nothing to do with the actual works of Marx.

9 2024-10-26 22:36

never read marx, it's waste

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