[ mona / prog / sol ]

sol


We don't need Codes of Conduct, period

1 2020-03-05 02:34

Everything is already said in RFC 1855 (Netiquette Guidelines) When was it suddenly superseded?

Diversity? Respect? Inclusion? Sexual harassment?

Remember that the recipient is a human being whose culture,
language, and humor have different points of reference from your
own.  Remember that date formats, measurements, and idioms may
not travel well.   Be especially careful with sarcasm.
There are Newsgroups and Mailing Lists which discuss topics
of  wide varieties of interests.  These represent a diversity of
lifestyles, religions, and cultures.  Posting articles or sending
messages to a group whose point of view is offensive to you
simply to tell them they are offensive is not acceptable.
Sexually and racially harassing messages may also have legal
implications.  There is software available to filter items
you might find objectionable.
Since the Internet spans the globe, remember that Information
Services might reflect culture and life-style markedly different
from your own community.  Materials you find offensive may
originate in a geography which finds them acceptable.  Keep an open
mind.

Microaggressions? Trigger warnings?

Wait overnight to send emotional responses to messages.  If you
have really strong feelings about a subject, indicate it via
FLAME ON/OFF enclosures.  For example:
FLAME ON:  This type of argument is not worth the bandwidth
           it takes to send it.  It's illogical and poorly
           reasoned.  The rest of the world agrees with me.
FLAME OFF

https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

October 1995

But, of course, people shoving their CoC down everyone's throat weren't even born.

2 2020-03-05 18:29 *

Yeah, it seems like people took that so seriously and we have no problems with how people treat each other online.

3 2020-03-05 18:59 *

http://nocodeofconduct.com/

# Contributor Code of Conduct

This project adheres to No Code of Conduct.  We are all adults.  We accept anyone's contributions.  Nothing else matters.

For more information please visit the [No Code of Conduct](https://nocodeofconduct.com) homepage.
4 2020-03-07 18:02

>>3

Attention Required! | Cloudflare
One more step
Please complete the security check to access nocodeofconduct.com

I was curious to see their homepage but it seems that's not possible.

5 2020-03-07 21:01

What the world needs is kind communication: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html

6 2020-03-07 21:29 *

>>4
Understandable. I don't know why they have to use Clouflare services for a single static Web page. Here's a safe link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20191001193438/http://nocodeofconduct.com/

7 2020-03-08 20:00

>>5
There's nothing there that wasn't already in the Netiquette guidelines. The whole text serves as a lame excuse to bring in and validate gender identity or the idea that someone isn't what they are, but what they say they are. (note my use of gender-neutral pronouns here)

Please think about how to treat other participants with respect, especially when you disagree with them. For instance, call them by the names they use, and honor their preferences about their gender identity[1]

Footnote
1. Honoring people's preferences about gender identity includes not referring to them in ways that conflict with that identity. For instance, not to use pronouns for them that conflict with it. There are several ways to avoid that; one way is to use gender-neutral pronouns, since they don't conflict with any possible gender identity. One choice is singular use of “they,” “them” and “their.” Another choice uses the gender-neutral singular pronouns, “person,” “per” and “pers,” which are used in Information for Maintainers of GNU Software. Other gender-neutral pronouns have also been used in English.

You'll find the same ideas in FreeBSD's code of conduct <https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html>

Harassment includes but is not limited to:

- Comments that reinforce systemic oppression related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurodiversity, physical appearance, body size, age, race, or religion.
- Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices, including those related to food, health, parenting, drugs, and employment.
- Deliberate misgendering
- Deliberate use of "dead" or rejected names

GNU's communication guideline needs a footnote and FreeBSD's CoC includes a glossary for "systemic oppression" and "dead names" because not everybody is aware that you get to choose your gender. And by the way, how many genders are they? Nobody knows, you can make up new ones every day! Now you'll have endless dramas because some dev used ze/hir or xe/xem/xyr instead of co/cos while referring to another dev's commit.

8 2020-03-08 20:13 *

Are you going to ask people to mail you their birth certificate? It's the Internet, you can be anything you want to be.

9 2020-03-08 21:01

>>8
Good point but don't forget you have to keep up with the changes, because one you previously knew as X is now Y. Also birth certificates being desperately ``binary'', they are probably part of the ``systemic oppression''.

Anyway, I always try to be kind, even without a guideline. Just don't ask me to learn new pronouns for each individual. This is tiresome and a bit of a perversion by itself. It's asking me to validate your sexual fantasies, to roleplay with you, and that seems to me very close to another form of sexual harassment.

10 2020-03-08 22:18 *

You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

11 2020-03-08 23:35

I have fears and traumas. Say something inappropriate and you're fired. Maybe you didn't even know it was inappropriate.

12 2020-03-09 02:19 *

Richard Stallman stepped out into the room. We all screamed and giggled. I yelled "Richard! Richard! I love you Richard!" as I pushed my way to the front of the crowd. I held out my signed Gentoo liveCD and a felt tipped pen and begged Stallman to sign it. He looked at me with a twinkle in his eye. "What's your name?" he asked me. I choked. I couldn't say anything, I was so nervous! I opened my mouth to try to say something but I suddenly projectile vomited all over rms, covering him in half-digested white castle chicken rings. "I'm so sorry Mr. Stallman!" I said, on the verge of tears. "Don't worry about it, why don't you come back to my dressing room and help me get cleaned up?" It was a dream come true. "Of course I will, Mr. Stallman " I said. He led me back to his room and shut the door behind us. "So you didn't tell me your name yet," said rms. "Oh! I forgot! My name is Madeline!" I stammered. "Madeline, that's a very pretty name," said rms. I blushed bright red. "Would you like to help me change out of these clothes Madeline?" I dropped my Gentoo CD on the floor. I must have been dreaming, I thought. "Of course..."

I began to take off his stunning white leisure suit. I took off his coat jacket, then the floral collared shirt underneath it. I was face to face with Stallman's chiseled abs. He was covered in a thick black hair, the kind that you would find on a feral cat. He smelled distinctly of bear urine. "Have you ever been with an older man before?" he whispered softly.

I shook my head no. "Lick me," he said. I complied. I stuck my tongue out and began to lick his sweaty chest. It tasted like if you wiped your ass with a piece of salmon and then covered it in burnt hair. I was in heaven. I licked my way up to his left nipple, then his right nipple, then another nipple that was a few inches left of his right nipple. "Don't mind that," he whispered softly, "that's just my third nipple." By now he had a furious erection that stood out from his pants. "Let's go over to the couch," he said. "Okay..."

This was the moment I had been waiting for. Stallman lay prone on the couch, shivering softly. I began to unbutton his button fly. I slid his erection out from his underwear. It was immaculate. It looked like a burnt hot dog, all shriveled and blackened. His balls hung languidly bellow it, the scrotum covered in some sort of genital fungus. I noticed his peehole was located on the side of his penis, about two inches from the head. "Don't mind that, it's just my hypospadia." I began to suck. I don't know how long I sucked for, a minute, thirty seconds, ten seconds, seven seconds. It felt like a lifetime. It was pure bliss. Suddenly, he came in my mouth. I was surprised by it, and began choking. I fell backwards, splashing his golden yellow semen into my eyes. I was blinded and choking on the floor. I couldn't breathe.
Stallman began to hit me in the stomach with a bowling pin, hoping to dislodge the semen from my throat. He missed though and struck me in the back of the skull, dislodging my spinal cord and sending me into a coma. Stallman did the only honorable thing to do and stuffed me inside of a garbage bag and, thinking I was dead, throw me off of a bridge into the river. I eventually became entangled in a lobster pot and was brought ashore by a kindly fisherman. I'm a quadriplegic now and I no longer have any feeling from the neck down. But while my ability to function as a normal human being may be gone, the memories of that magical night will last for ever.

13 2020-03-09 06:08

>>7

Harassment includes ...
>Comments that reinforce systemic oppression related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurodiversity, physical appearance, body size, age, race, or religion.
>Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices, including those related to food, health, parenting, drugs, and employment.
>Deliberate misgendering
>Deliberate use of "dead" or rejected names

note: harrasment requires reoccurence. Each above-listed ``harrasment,'' done singly, is not harrasment. (No reoccurence.)

The whole text serves as a lame excuse to bring in and validate gender identity or the idea that someone isn't what they are, but what they say they are. (note my use of gender-neutral pronouns here)

Note his use of the plural nouns to refer to singular or not-necessarily plural items. (Note my use of generic singular pronoun genetive.)

their preferences about their gender identity

note: A preference about one's gender identity, a preference about how an other expresses one's gender identity are different things. I honour latter-type preferences, unless such preference is demand.

Now you'll have endless dramas because some dev used ze/hir or xe/xem/xyr instead of co/cos while referring to another dev's commit.

And they would be poorer for it. Demanding another must speak a particular way reinforces systemic oppression; done twice or more is harrassment. Open your mind---the Free Software Falsity
---False Freedom Federation, the

14 2020-03-09 06:44

The thing about making a big deal about the government's use of gender, is that all government classifications are legal fictions---not to deny their weight in affairs, but this legal fiction is used for it's own purposes---silly, or dangerous, as they may be. Sometimes, the distinction is used for what a would be more accurate to call sex---your physical reproductive organs---but even here, there are cases when one has some/none of both/either.

15 2020-03-09 18:06 *

Then I'm just gonna use this one-liner

> cat CoC.md
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God;
and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
16 2020-06-27 17:01

>>3
That is ridiculous.

17 2020-06-27 19:33

The word "gender" should be removed from the english language. I only use sex.

18 2020-06-27 22:03 *

>>17
If JK Rowling isn't immune, imagine how fast you're going to lose your job.

19 2020-06-28 11:41

https://github.com/bongochong/Code-of-Conduct/blob/master/Code-of-Conduct.md

20 2020-06-28 16:33

>>17
I second this.

21 2020-06-29 21:02

Throwing tantrums about something as insignificant as codes of conduct must be the dumbest part of this new WWW outrage culture. Maybe it's because it requires skill to produce something but absolutely none to bikeshed dumb shit like this. Get a fucking life and contribute something of merit instead of spending your days bellyaching.

22 2020-06-29 21:14

>>21
I apologise for losing my temper here.
I'm just frustrated to see this undying dickwagging make its way to this board. I feel like people are just looking for an excuse to get upset and codes of conduct are the easiest target to whine about, because they're non-technical and they go against the tech culture's glorification of being a shitstain of a human being. Please, let's move on already.

23 2020-06-30 06:23 *

>>21-22
There's no need to apologise.

24 2020-06-30 16:27

>>21
>>22
If they are insignificant, them there is no need for them after all.

Maybe it's because it requires skill to produce something but absolutely none to bikeshed dumb shit like this.

It require skills to produce useful projects but absolutely none to bikeshed dumb shit like Codes of Conduct*. FTFY.

Get a fucking life and contribute something of merit

Exactly, like projects which do not align with the Post-Meritocracy agenda:
https://postmeritocracy.org/

I feel like people are just looking for an excuse to get upset

Your feelings are not an argument.

25 2020-06-30 16:29

>>24
then*

26 2020-06-30 16:34 *

"We believe that interpersonal skills are at least as important as technical skills"
God, it's just another way for normalfags to encroach on outsider's territory. Anybody who's on the quiet side or just isn't interested in socializing with coworkers and getting involved with their bullshit social dynamics will be labeled "problematic". Being rude/disruptive and not being friedly are two different things.

27 2020-06-30 23:51

>>24-26
Allow me to rephrase it: PC SJWs (or whatever they're called these days) are bogeymen and CoCs are windmills. Whining about them is an exercise at navelgazing.

28 2020-07-01 11:50 *

>>24
Did you just unironically combine Shapiro's "facts don't care about your feelings" with Molyneux's "not an argument"? Are you 14?

29 2020-07-01 22:53

Employing people based on their ability to perform a job ostracizes those with little or no skill and has no place in an inclusive society.

30 2020-07-02 21:36

>>28
No and no.

31 2020-07-03 07:57 *

>>27
If CoCs are windmills, what is Holland?

32 2020-07-03 18:45

>>5
This.

33 2020-07-04 09:19 *

we live in a society

34 2020-07-21 14:06

You can just kick a person out if their behavior is disruptive. Civil behavior is kind of universal in an enviroment where people's identities are linked to what they say. Codes of conduct only exist to virtue signal and abuse. It leads to Kicking somebody out not because they've negatively affected whatever work is being done, but because some completely unrelated action they've done can be interpreted as violating the project's "moral principles". When people are kicked out on a case by case basis, it's also more likely that a specific reason will be provided and not "they violated the code".

35 2020-07-21 16:32

Trannies. Trannies, trannies, trannies.

36 2020-07-22 10:38 *

>>35
Timmy! What did I say about saying naughty words in class?

37 2020-07-26 09:17 *

>>36
...

38 2020-08-13 19:41 *

S.W.I.M's pronouns are S.W.I.M/S.W.I.M.

S.W.I.M doesn't want to be blamed for S.W.I.M's commit.

39 2020-08-15 07:20

we don't need another conduct code
we don't need to know the way, oh
all we want is what's beyond...

40 2020-08-26 03:15

Nobody follows it. That's why codes of conduct are needed.

41 2020-08-26 05:40 *

>>40
Yes, because if we change its name only then will people follow it....

42 2020-08-26 10:34 *

>>41
not entirely but maybe some

43 2020-08-27 07:55

There is nothing new here, it has little to do with civil behavior or morality — instead, it has everything to do with poor self-esteem and narcissism. It's no coincidence that CoCs tend to be pushed hardest by project deadwood who've no vision or skill to contribute to a project.

44 2020-08-28 06:58 *

People with vision and skill have little need for civil behavior and morality.

45 2020-08-30 03:51

>>44
Your reading comprehension needs work.

46 2020-08-30 23:10 *

>>45
Are you sure >>44 isn't meant for op and just decided to adopt >>43's ideas for the reply? Shouldn't you be using VIP for this?

47 2020-09-02 05:43

Codes of Conducts allow easily to discern what kind of people run the project by reading the code of conduct.
So they have utility.

48 2020-09-02 06:42 *

>>47
You make a good point. Virtue signaling is indeed a reliable litmus test.

49 2020-09-03 11:51

Can a Copyleft-like code of conduct be designed, by which people who propose a "real" code of conduct are banned/silenced?

50 2020-09-04 06:47 *

>>49
The first rule of our Code of Conduct is that you don't talk about it. The second rule is that you DON'T talk about it.

51


VIP:

do not edit these